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The Watchmen

 
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E-Bob: Die for Avengance!



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:57 am    Post subject: The Watchmen Reply with quote

Who saw it? Did you like it? I loved it! 4/5 at least and a 5/5 from me once i block out all of the blue penis.
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Birdo



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should note that I've read the comic series long before the movie came out, so I may bitch about adapting the movie from it.

WARNING: THERE MAY BE SPOILERS, THOSE WHO HAVEN'T SEEN IT YET

As a movie, I loved it. I thought that with all the material they had to work with, they did very well. The opening scene was just perfect: the song, the references, everything was done very well. I was really impressed with that. However, there were a few scenes that I didn't like or didn't make sense to me. Like the beginning, before the opening credits, where the apt. door had the number 3001, and the bullet hit the 1 off, leaving just 300. That fucking infuriated me. I was sitting there, going "NO!!! I'M WATCHING WATCHMEN!!! NOT 300!!! STOP WITH THE EGO-STROKE, MOTHERFUCKER!" Ugh, I really hated that, it almost ruined the whole scene for me.

Another thing was the use of "Hallelujah" during the sex scene...wtf? What's the significance of that song in the context? NONE! ...and also, did we really need more indication that she reached an orgasm? I mean, they're naked (which is a big enough no-no in American film, ugh), no sheets, and you get to see her O-face plenty of times...what more indication do we need that she came? Obviously, the whole damn ship wasting resources by shooting fire. Sure, the comic has that exact thing, but I thought the movie could've done without that and still be faithful. It would've been more tasteful if they left it out, personally.

I can forgive a few things given the constraints of time, like when Walter Kovacs seems almost too eager to share his story of becoming Rorschach. That's fine because they're already taking up 2 and a 1/2 hours, and who has that kinda time for a movie nowadays? Rolling Eyes

The soundtrack, for the most part, was great, dare I say, perfect. Like, when Adrian Veidt was talking about his self-comparison to Alexander the Great, that was a great song to play (Tears for Fears - "Everybody Wants to Rule the World") and I loved how subtle it was. I also like the song during the pacifying scene with Nite Owl II and the Comedian (KC and the Sunshine Band - "I'm Your Boogie Man"). Nat King Cole's "Unforgettable" was a pretty good choice for the beginning, right before the Comedian dies. I didn't like how they seemingly randomly used Nena's "99 Luftballons" in the scene with Dan and Laurie, it just didn't fit. Also, I absolutely hated the use of My Chemical Romance's "Desolation Row"

The actors, overall, were pretty good choices. Rorschach was perfect, voice and everything. Even the little Rorschach kid was a great choice. The only one I didn't really like was Silk Spectre. According to the comic, she was supposed to be in her late 30's, near her 40's, because she met Dr. Manhattan when she was a teenager, and then they were a couple for 25+ years. She looked too young in this movie, but I guess artistic license can explain that: We needed a hotter face that's easier on the eyes, as she is the only female lead. I didn't like who they got for Ozymandias. He was too small for what he did in that movie, especially towards the end. That role called for someone who was taller (at least) and had a better build, but also had the flexibility. But eh, whatever.

It's understandable that they completely neglected the whole squid monster part from the comic and just left it at a destructive blast. That would've added another 10-15 minutes to the movie, acknowledging that artists and scientists have gone missing and all that. Not to mention that it would've also cost more in the already gigantic budget. They also altered the end where there was supposed to be a conversation between Ozymandias and Dr. Manhattan, but I think they handled that rather half-assedly.

Overall, as a movie, it was great. As an adaptation, it could've used a little more work.

Now here's some accurate proof that the US is a nation of 6 year-olds, sadly:


Notice how I said everything I just posted, and not once mentioned Dr Manhattan's junk.
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E-Bob: Die for Avengance!



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I've finally got a response from someone. Now, I've never read or even heard of the Watchmen prior to this movie. Post movie, I have ordered it and it should be at my door soon enough.

I thought most of the acting was great. My girlfriend and I noticed that the guy playing Nite Owl was the same guy from that Samuel L. Jackson movie everwood terrace, or something? NIte owl was the guy who married a black chick, which was something Jackson hated because he's a black cop that is racist as hell which is weird because race cannot be backed scientifically (biology kind of proves that race is a social construct, and is in general bullshit)

Anyway, the hallelujah song kind of did go with the sex scene. I never considered that song to be too religious, just borrowed those biblical lines/metaphors. and if i'm wrong and it is religious, then perhaps it was just ironically to make fun of religion through the sex scene. And while the sex scene is a little crazy, why should it be more tasteful? Watchmen is celebrated because of how imperfect and twisted things in that world were; heroes who rape, were raped, went insane, were insane, killed, etc. I felt that if it was the typical kind of story of heroes, then eah, it should ave been more tasteful. but, considering the kind of characters and world that it was, i think the sex scene could have been "less tasteful" and still have fit in perfectly fine.

Now, the chart: where is the proof of this? I mean, it's no big deal that Dr. Manhattan's dick was out the entire time, but is itr really wrong to have gone : "Ugh! Sick" when it first comes out? anything beyond that might have been childish, but i think that the first time it's ok. the story is definitely hard to follow, but my girlfriend, cousin, and I , the three of us got it pretty much 100% all around. Also, I don't think that disliking flaccid blue dong is a bad thing. But, if you base the movie on that (like a couple of my girlfriend's friends, whom she absolutely made feel like retards; literally, she was told not to see it because of the blue dick.)

It's a story of normal people; not good vs. evil. There is no distinction there, as the Comedian spent his entire life trying to show (at least, i thought so). Roschach is my favorite next to Comedian... yeah... i've problems. I'm not a big science fan, so i didn't speak about the quantum mechanics and scientific miracle.

Our convo post movie was as such:
*walking from seat to car*
Me: that was pretty awesome.
Girlfriend: Yeah, it was so great!
Cousin: It was crazy. The story is all over the place.
All Three: ...
Me: We basically saw a porno.
*uprorarious laughter*
Me: Kind of wish i got some warning on the amount of dick in the movie, *laughter*.
Girlfriend: yeah, what was the point of it? I mean... sometimes it's covered and other times it wasn't. he got dressed in a fucking suit?
Cousin: Camera angles too...
Me: Well, at least i know mine is more nuclear.

And then we got into the deeper meanings of good, evil, the ends and the means, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w

that is the result of what would happen if the watchmen got too commercialized... saturday morning watchmen. hilarious.
[/img]
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Birdo



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm saying it could've been more tasteful because, given everything you've said, it's supposed to be artistic. Sure, the world's somewhat realistic with it's "twisted" parts, but it's still a work of fiction. I just feel that for an adaptation of a graphic novel that's been praised all across the board as one of the best fictional pieces ever created, it could've kept up with as much mature and artistic expression to match its basis. I'd have been fine if they had written part of the score to play as background at that part or something, but as much as I love hearing Leonard Cohen's voice, which I always think has a ridiculously sensual quality, it just didn't work at all this time, at least to me.

About Dr. Manhattan, I mention the concentration on his junk because every single fucking interview that Billy Crudup did had not so grown-up questions on his nudity, and about half of 'em have some kind of picture to show that he was naked (most of 'em censored), almost as if to go "Look! He's naked! Tee hee!" Not to mention a lot of the forum posts that I've seen where idiots are just making whole conversations about it: "so he's not circumsized, huh?" "I'm bigger than him!" ...you get the idea...not very mature. Need I mention your porno or warning comments? I'm not saying that you're part of the embarrassment that is how everyone's taking the concept of nudity in the movie, but you saying something like you did there is certainly not helping.

The whole deal about him not wearing clothes was that in the book, he says that clothes only serve two purposes: protection from the elements and to keep from being embarrassed; and since he has no need to protect himself from anything nor does he feel any embarrassment, he doesn't wear any clothes except for when he was in the public eye. To him, it's just an arbitrary concept, a trivial afterthought, and it's simply the social norm to wear clothes.

I have a friend who's a hardcore Alan Moore fan, so I don't need a lecture about what kind of world it is. I've already had that talk. Just so you know, Alan Moore is the guy who was the head writer and main creator of the whole Watchmen comic series: world, characters and all. He spent 4 years of his life writing it, and he did not want anything to do with the movie. Take a look in the actual credits, you won't find his name anywhere. He didn't even take any money that was offered to him, he gave it all to Dave Gibbons, the illustrator. You'll find Dave Gibbons in the movie's opening credits (where Ozymandias is in front of Studio 54 with Ziggy Stardust), but not Alan Moore.
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E-Bob: Die for Avengance!



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tasteful sex scenes, the final frontier. I understand what you're saying and you do have a point, they could have been more subtle and chosen different music.

Yeah, I figured that Dr. Manhattan, being a "man" (blue glowing god-like thing?) with the type of powers and knowledge he had, he probably knew that clothes are bullshit, in essence. some areas of the world, clothes only serve to prevent embarrassment. I understood that, but if i was asked: Would you like to see some blue dick? I would say: No, thanks. If i have a choice, I would like to pass. There was a lot of blue dick in the movie, as there probably is in the comic (which should be with me by monday. i also bought v for vendetta), but it in no way will seriously affect my thoughts of the movie or the comic. I mean, i did say things to that effect, but those were jokes.
I think its ok to make dick jokes provided that one actually appreciates and understands the rest of the movie/story, a few are ok but there is a limit. I think to be mature is different than simply never resulting to childish humor, but rather knowing that there is a difference, there are limits, and there are times where that humor would not be funny. Since he is such a powerful being whose body was changed, why did he even have a penis? Why not design him without those human body parts or let him hide it, etc. considering the kind of response that can be assumed to result? Pushing boundaries? Artistic qualities? I'm just saying that generally, if i have the choice, i would choose to see no or lower sightings of penises.

as for alan moore lectures, i'll lecture you however and whenever i want! actually, i know very little about him. like i said, didn't even know about the existence of this movie/series. i also did not mean to lecture, it's just that i did not want to make my claims (particularly about the sec scenes) w/o providing some premises for my claims. never meant to lecture, my friend. take no offense.

feel like coming up with as list of topics speak about further concerning watchmen or v for vendetta, etc.?

like... ends justifying the means. what about how rorshach's decision to ruin world peace? ideals vs. realities. is idealism worth pursuing or should we take what we get?
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Birdo



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do agree that it's ok to be a little immature every once in a while. Like Willy Wonka once said, "A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men."

Don't worry, I was afraid I was offending you as well, and a few things that I said might have come off as a little strong, and I did not mean for that.

As far as the design of his own anatomy goes, you're gonna have to take it up with the guy who drew the damn comic, Mr. Gibbons. Wink

I was kind of torn with the ending. I mean, on the one hand, the world peace that Ozymandias had achieved is one hell of a difficult goal to reach. He definitely was very meticulous and careful about how to go about it, and the fact that he did it at all is something to marvel at. On the other hand, I kind of understood why Rorschach reacted the way he did. He wanted to reach that goal as well, but not the way Ozymandias did. He wanted to do it honestly, and who can blame him? That's really a dilemma, man.

V for Vendetta is an amazing comic to read...I haven't read all of 'em, but what I have read is definitely worth reading over and over again to just comprehend fully.
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E-Bob: Die for Avengance!



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You were offending me. We duel with penises at dawn! (i first typed in pistols, but given the previous posts, i figured it would be funnier this way).

I was like Rorshach... once. I realized to be ideological and such is not merely for the young or immature, but the truly powerful. I've held firm beliefs that only when I am beaten, broken, bruised, battered, and moments from death would I give up on the important things (this is a much deeper topic but one day we shall touch upon it. basically, my ideals are for benefit of the entire world). but, because the way this world is all bullshit, it might be better to just work within the system. i feel like we need to break the system and then rebuild it, but seeing as my entire family is middle-class, how can i/we change anything or anyone who does not have a shitload of money do anything to benefit anyone other than the people at the top? sigh.

ultimately, in order to achieve world peace, to end the cold war, it makes perfect sense to find any way necessary to reach that goal. i was torn at first, but then after some reflection i can see why it would be better to just deal with it. there's no way that the us and ussr would have willingly joined forces or calmed relations without a common enemy. let the world get destroyed or trick everyone into working together? i think when it's like that, any means necessary is required, but considering the power that manhattan does, couldn't he have described to them what would happen? couldn't he, as an undoubtedly superior being, reveal to them logically why their war is retarded?

Dr. Manhattan for Emperor of Earth and Ruler of the Race of Man 2012. Woot.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spent most of the film trying to decipher the reasoning for luminescent blue penis because I went in prepared for the worst.

At first I saw God Man with his thong on, so I immediately assumed that the penis showing may be a one-time deal. Perhaps it would be the scenes where he increases his overall size to that of a giant. I say this because I assumed elastic wasn't that durable.

I was wrong. There he was; the size of a building, sporting a giant thong... and turning the Vietnamese into toothpaste. I then came to the conclusion that this scene I kept preparing myself for would be the scene introducing his origin, so I waited.

I was wrong again. I assumed it would have been because his clothes were exploding off or something of the sort, but there was no blue penis in the scene illustrating how he came to be. At this point I had no idea what I was in store for, but assumed it was minimal.

I was very, very wrong. It came to be that it was the sex scene involving his threesome (masturbation?) with himself, himself and his girlfriend where I was quickly assaulted by many blue penises. After the wide-eyed, disturbed look on my face left me, I believed that was it, the worst was over and I would never see it again. He would only walk around like that in his own home after all, right?

Wrong again. Although, I should be thankful he wore clothes to the interview... not that it made sense because the whole world knew of his nuclear crotch soon after. The man was capable of reconstructing his body from scratch, gave himself the perfect human form (giant blue penis included) but when he shuns humanity he keeps his physique? Even after he gets obliterated and comes back a million times larger at the end he is still intent on tormenting me with his fusion junk.

Is it in the name of art? Probably. It's slightly shocking that a movie would do that, so it'll be remembered later on as something epic, or at least stand out. To be honest though, I don't really care. It's just funny to talk about. What actually ticked me off were the sex scenes between Owl Man and Miss "Whats Her Power?" Personally, I hate all sex scenes in films, but it went past retarded at that point. I think they needed to fill some space or something or at least I hope it wasn't intentional. It's like they tried to fill the movie with enough nudity to make you not feel like an idiot for being old and still going to see movies about guys in tights and capes.

Overall I liked the movie. Rorshach was completely awesome but I think a full movie based around him alone would have been horrible. I also liked Smart Man's pet Displacer Beast.

Come to think of it... both Rorshach and Displacer Beast died in scenes involving GIANT BLUE PENIS.
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Dingo



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The movie was good, but I admit I came out a bit disappointed. I found it odd how they included some references to the comic book without explaining them in the movie; maybe they were pushed for time in the theatrical version, but stuff like showing the newspaper vendor and the kid near the end before they were killed in the explosion didn't make sense. Also I think they should've at least mentioned the origins of Veidt's cat-beast like they did in the comics. Obviously the ending was changed (in terms of Veidt's plan) just to help make more sense (they would've never been able to explain a giant squid exploding and aliens regardless of how they went about it).

Rorschach was cool to watch, but I'm kinda bummed that they had him take a butcher knife to the guys head (in his backstory) instead of lighting the house on fire (again, small change from the comic that bugs me). Rorschach is about my only favorite character anyway.

Nite Owl was okay up until the sex scene. I'm not sure what they were aiming for with that, but it was just one big joke in the end. I wouldn't be surprised if the inclusion of the song Hallelujah was to parody Nite Owl not being able to get it up in the "almost sex scene" prior to it.

Overall, it was okay. Not the best.
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Birdo



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, as long as we're talking about Watchmen, how about parod-E?

Watchmen/Wall-E trailer

it really helps to know the audio from the Watchmen trailer well... Laughing
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E-Bob: Die for Avengance!



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got my comics in the mail a few days ago. Watchmen is mostly the same in radness, i am probably exactly at 50%. Ridiculously long to read a page. I could read an entire chapter of manga in the time it would take to read like 2 pages of the Watchmen. Lots of story. Explain near 3 hour movie, which is ther bane of existence. But, they did miss some things or changes some things, but ultimately it is still pretty good.

Someone had complained (birdo, i think) about how rorshach was too quick to give his life story, which is true the comic it is much more drawn out (from what i remember from the movie like 2 weeks ago). Also, the therapist had a story that wasn't part of the movie practically at all! Just talking to rorscach was changing him drastically. Sigh.

I wish it was spring break again. Double sigh.
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E-Bob: Die for Avengance!



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UGH. I just finished the comic. I realized about 8 different things and finally understood Rorscach a little bit more... HE SEES THE WORLD IN BLACK AND WHITE. He could not comprehend the gray area that Ozymandias had found! It's a mental handicap. ugh. cannot believe i didn't realize that sooner.
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Birdo



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the design of Ozymandias' hero suit in the comic better than how it looked in the movie.
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E-Bob: Die for Avengance!



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the suit looked pretty gay one way or the other. Did not care for it very much.

On a side note, started reading V for Vendetta. ummm... not as good as watchmen from the start. First 20 pages were kind of lame. V is much cooler in the movie and I kind of dislike the fact they took away his 2 minute explanation with ridiculous amount of V-words. i understand that the comic came before the movie, but i'm speaking of it in a different order because i saw the movie first. From about page 30 onward, things got much better because there is a lot more story and depth becoming involved. Bits of the story that was untold shall now be known to me.
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E-Bob: Die for Avengance!



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finished V for Vendetta. I gotta say, I'm a little disapointed that some of my favorite movie happenings did not occur. However, I do like how much better the story and plot got/grew. Really Nice.
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BloodyBandage



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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw the movie first which I loved, then started reading up on the graphic novel; it's an awesome story. Wonder if they could make some type of game out of it, whether mmo based or single player.
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Birdo



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that would just be silly...
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E-Bob: Die for Avengance!



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

people who hate it are idiots. they say it's too long and there's blue penis. so.. you don't have the intelliegence to handle a long story nor the maturity to handle a blue penis and to you that = a logical hatred for the movie?

this reasoning was taken by my cousin and a coworker. i also have not heard any other kind of reasons. i mean, the sex scene between nite owl II and silk spectre was probably bad, but that's not enough to make me hate the whole thing.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must confess I'm not a fan of Alan Moore so like all the other films based on his work I'll give this one a miss.
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E-Bob: Die for Avengance!



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you and alan moore are exactly the same. he hates the movies based on his work too. he receives no moneys from v for vendetta (which is drastically different than his actual graphic novel) and watchmen.
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Patraw



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't seen the movie, but I enjoyed the graphic novel--other than the ending that is, which I thought was ridiculous.
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microphone



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen it and enjoyed it a lot Awesomeee For sure Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:14 am    Post subject: Agree Reply with quote

Yes, it was great!
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