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Five Star Match Database
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Foleyite



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are my favorite matches of the year, so far. For funsies.


1. Tetsuya Naito vs. Kenny Omega (G1 Climax Finals 08/12/17)
2. Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega (08/11/17)
3. IWGP champ Kazuchika Okada vs. Shibata (Sakura Genesis)
4. Tetsuya Naito vs Michael Elgin (02/11/17)
5. IWGP champ Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega (Dominion)
6. IWGP champ Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega (Wrestle Kingdom 01/04/17)
7. WWE UK champ Tyler Bate vs. Pete Dunne (NXT TakeOver)
8. Kenny Omega vs. Tomohiro Ishii (NJPW G1 Special Long Beach 07/02/17)
9. Kenny Omega vs. Tomohiro Ishii (NJPW Wrestling Dontaku 05/03/17)
10. Tetsuya Naito vs. Kota Ibushi (G1 Climax Night 1 07/17/17)

I think Naito, Omega and Okada are pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty good.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately for me, I'm much more into a match when I don't know the outcome already, which dampens my enjoyment of a lot of the NJPW stuff. The matches are obviously great, but I end up not being as excited about them and a really really good WWE match because I already know what's going to happen. I did really like Omega/Okada from the dome show and I finally saw Shibata/Okada which I also liked but it dragged slightly at times.

So all of that just to say that Dunne/Bate is my favorite so far this year. I haven't seen the Omega/Okada and Omega/Naito G1 matches yet though, which sound like they may be a little more up my alley.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GIncognto wrote:
Unfortunately for me, I'm much more into a match when I don't know the outcome already, which dampens my enjoyment of a lot of the NJPW stuff. The matches are obviously great, but I end up not being as excited about them and a really really good WWE match because I already know what's going to happen. I did really like Omega/Okada from the dome show and I finally saw Shibata/Okada which I also liked but it dragged slightly at times.

So all of that just to say that Dunne/Bate is my favorite so far this year. I haven't seen the Omega/Okada and Omega/Naito G1 matches yet though, which sound like they may be a little more up my alley.


I have NJPWWorld now so I saw all of those matches, (save for Naito/Elgin, Shibata/Okada and one of the Omega/Ishii matches), live. I think that always makes a huge difference in your investment of a match. Not only knowing who wins or what the finish is beforehand, but a match with risky bumps or things like that are really compelling and scary in the moment. But if you watch those matches after you've heard Meltzer rave about them and add "and amazingly enough, ya know, no major injuries after the G1 show", your nerves aren't nearly as on edge.

Although the general in-ring product is pretty solid these days, WWE and NXT haven't really had any other stand-out matches that I can even think of off the top of my head. Even Dunne/Bate is barely a WWE product. It's them borrowing a couple of British indy wrestling guys and giving them a showcase.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My favorite example of this was when ESPN used to rebroadcast "classic games" like Nolan Ryan's 7th no-hitter. I understand that all of the one-team cable channels (Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc.) do the same thing with their tape libraries. See Jon Lester no-hit the Royals! See David Wells' perfect game!

Because really, the element that makes watching a no-hitter so compelling is knowing that it is certain to happen.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's somebody on YouTube that started posting a bunch of random old baseball games. They just seem completely random. A 1991 Tigers/Mariners game. A 1988 Indians/Yankees game. I've watched bits & pieces before falling asleep. It's kind of a comforting thing to watch and it's actually more interesting to see these random games than the classic, historic ones. The channel that shows Angel games out here will show the famous 1986 Red Sox/Angels game, the World Series win etc, but I've seen those highlights a billion times and I have no interest in sitting through 2+ hours of the full games. It's more interesting to watch a random old '80s/'90s game and think "Oh yeah, I always forget Ron Cey was a Cub for a couple of years".
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meltzer gave that trainwreck TLC main event ****1/4.

Extra star points for letting the Mayor of Knox County bounce Dean Ambrose's head off of a table and letting the free market decide where it would land.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That move is where the extra 1/4 came from.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meltzer gave WALTER vs. Zack Sabre Jr. from PWG's All-Star Weekend *****.

This is the third PWG match to get the 5-star treatment.

This is the tenth match of 2017 to get at least 5 stars.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wrestling expert SOME GUY (actually, a newsletter person named Dann Lennard) did a marathon viewing of the 37 matches that won the Observer's Best Match of the Year from 1980 through 2016, and also the 33 matches that were voted Worst of the Year since 1984.

Some Guy's pick for the Best Match since 1980 (among official Best Match winners, anyhow) was Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Kota Ibushi in 2015.

His pick for the Worst Match was 1996's Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage in a 2-on-8 Tower of Doom cage match versus "the Alliance to End Hulkamania": Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, Meng, Barbarian, Lex Luger, Kevin Sullivan, Z Gangsta (the former Zeus) and Ultimate Solution (aka Jeep Swenson). Part Two of the mat classic is here.

Meltzer reports that Hogan noticed that Brian Pillman had been getting a reaction disproportionate to his booking status, and insisted that WCW put a stop to Pillman's anti-WCW "loose cannon" storyline so he could be added as the 9th man on the team. Instead, Pillman scheduled actual surgery in order to get out of being in the match.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HelloDes wrote:
Wrestling expert SOME GUY (actually, a newsletter person named Dann Lennard) did a marathon viewing of the 37 matches that won the Observer's Best Match of the Year from 1980 through 2016, and also the 33 matches that were voted Worst of the Year since 1984.

Some Guy's pick for the Best Match since 1980 (among official Best Match winners, anyhow) was Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Kota Ibushi in 2015.

His pick for the Worst Match was 1996's Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage in a 2-on-8 Tower of Doom cage match versus "the Alliance to End Hulkamania": Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, Meng, Barbarian, Lex Luger, Kevin Sullivan, Z Gangsta (the former Zeus) and Ultimate Solution (aka Jeep Swenson). Part Two of the mat classic is here.

Meltzer reports that Hogan noticed that Brian Pillman had been getting a reaction disproportionate to his booking status, and insisted that WCW put a stop to Pillman's anti-WCW "loose cannon" storyline so he could be added as the 9th man on the team. Instead, Pillman scheduled actual surgery in order to get out of being in the match.


Whenever the "Worst Match Ever" thing comes up, I really don't agree with the mentality that the worst ones ever are matches like that Tower of Doom thing or WCW's Chamber of Horrors. Those matches are ridiculous and they're not good from a workrate standpoint, but they're also ridiculous and have tons of characters involved and have a lot going on. For example, I will re-watch any of those Chamber of Horrors matches again before I sit down and watch Roman Reigns vs. HHH send a WrestleMania crowd to sleep in an epic clash of boredom a second time.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Observer promotes certain biases and has a certain mentality, which is then often reflected by the year-end balloting.

So there's going be a sizable "WCW is stupid, and this was a big stupid that WCW stupided" constituency... or "Vince turned this beautiful sport of kings into a garish circus" back when that was a hot hate.

The voters also go for bad matches on big cards. And they like to punish mediocre-to-bad wrestlers who get big, long pushes.

They also pick matches with people like Gerald Brisco, Teddy Long, Lou Albano or midgets. That's not merely shooting fish in a barrel, that's watching fish spastically flop in a barrel for a while and then grading them negative-2 stars.

Wrestling Observer Worst Match of the Year, as voted by the readership:

1984: Wendi Richter vs. The Fabulous Moolah (WWF)
1985: Freddie Blassie vs. Lou Albano in a cage (WWF)
1986: Mr. T vs. Roddy Piper (boxing match) (WWF, WrestleMania 2)
1987: Hulk Hogan vs. André the Giant (WWF, WrestleMania 3)
1988: Hiroshi Wajima vs. Tom Magee (All Japan)
1989: André the Giant vs. Ultimate Warrior (WWF)
1990: Sid Vicious vs. The Nightstalker (WCW, Clash of the Champions)
1991: Bobby Eaton & P.N. News vs. Terrance Taylor & Steve Austin in a Capture the Flag scaffold match (WCW, The Great American Bash
1992: Rick Rude vs. Masahiro Chono (WCW, Halloween Havoc)
1993: Bushwhackers and Men on a Mission vs. Bam Bam Bigelow, Bastion Booger, and the Headshrinkers (WWF, Survivor Series)
1994: Jerry Lawler and Mini-Lawlers vs. The Doinks (WWF, Survivor Series)
1995: Sting vs. Tony Palmora (New Japan, Jan. 4 Tokyo Dome show)
1996: Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage vs. Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, Meng, The Barbarian, Lex Luger, Kevin Sullivan, Z-Gangsta and The Ultimate Solution in a triple-cage Tower of Doom match (WCW, Uncensored)
1997: Hulk Hogan vs. Roddy Piper (WCW, SuperBrawl)
1998: Hulk Hogan vs. The Warrior (WCW, Halloween Havoc)
1999: Al Snow vs. The Big Boss Man in a "Kennel from Hell Match" (WWE, Unforgiven)
2000: Pat Patterson vs. Gerald Brisco in a Hardcore Evening Gown Match (WWE, King of the Ring)
2001: The Brothers of Destruction (Kane/Taker) vs. KroniK (WWE, Unforgiven)
2002: Bradshaw & Trish Stratus vs. Christopher Nowinski & Jackie Gayda (WWE Raw)
2003: Triple H vs. Scott Steiner (WWE, Royal Rumble)
2004: Tyson Tomko vs. Stevie Richards (WWE, Unforgiven)
2005: Eric Bischoff vs. Theodore Long (WWE, Survivor Series)
2006: Reverse Battle Royal (TNA Impact!)
2007: James Storm vs. Chris Harris in a Six Sides of Steel Blindfold match (TNA, Lockdown)
2008 Edge vs. Triple H vs. Vladimir Kozlov (WWE, Survivor Series)
2009: Jenna Morasca vs. Sharmell (TNA, Victory Road)
2010: Kaitlyn vs. Maxine (WWE NXT)
2011: Sting vs. Jeff Hardy (TNA, Victory Road)
2012: John Cena vs. John Laurinaitis in a No Disqualification match (WWE, Over the Limit)
2013: Brie Bella, Nikki Bella, Natalya, Naomi, Cameron, Eva Marie, and JoJo vs. AJ Lee, Tamina Snuka, Kaitlyn, Alicia Fox, Aksana, Rosa Mendes, and Summer Rae (WWE, Survivor Series)
2014: John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt in a Steel Cage match (WWE, Extreme Rules)
2015: Psycho Circus vs. Villanos (AAA, Triplemanía)
2016: Shelly Martinez vs. Rebel (TNA, One Night Only: Knockouts Knockdown)
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is my main gripe with judging wrestling matches. It should be no different than judging an album or a film; you should judge it on its own merits and within context. (Yes, lots of people and critics are bad at doing that in those fields, as well.) AJ Styles and Shawn Michaels are great workers and they might tear the house down if they're given an even halfway decent guy in the ring. But, you've gotta give a Mark Henry credit when he does a good job playing the Big Bad and has a match with Sheamus or Randy Orton that achieves exactly what it's trying to do with some solid work involved. If a guy trips over his feet, botches 5 moves that most guys do effortlessly and bores the crowd, then you can grill the guy for being a bad worker.

I have seen that Tom Magee All-Japan match from 1988 and it is laughably bad. It takes a real piece of work to make you exclaim "Man, this guy makes pro wrestling look really fake". Why WWE won't put the famous Magee/Bret match on the Network on one of their "Unreleased Gems!" series or whatever is beyond me.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sting had the worst match of 1995, and the worst match 16 years later. You must respect the man's longevity (and age-hiding face paint).
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, I just watched that Tom Magee match for the first time, all 2 and a half minutes of it. (That newsletter guy's not the only one who does marathon viewings.)

I think you're conveniently forgetting the part in the middle where they execute not one, but TWO consecutive moves that don't look like shit.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with 1984 match between Roddy Piper and Jimmy Snuka is that Piper just doesn't sell enough for Snuka.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked up that Sting match from 1995. Immediately it became obvious why it was bad. Tony Palmora was a kickboxer, so it's one of those awful exhibition matches where hardly anything happens. Like the Mr. T vs. Piper boxing match, except this was thankfully only about 3 minutes long. The crazy thing is that I can remember plenty of pretty bad matches from WCW and the WWF in 1995 just off the top of my head, so it's weird that a one-off thing with a non-wrestler at New Japan's January 4th show took the prize that year.

The Sting/Hardy match is just infamous for being an anticipated match between two huge fan favorites that devolved into a mess because Hardy was clearly high and Sting was clearly annoyed with him. The highlight being Sting yelling "I AGREE!" on the ramp, in response to the booing.

So basically, Sting was put in shitty positions by wrestling promotions and did the best he could. All this shit, Sting, it's not your fault. Look at me, Sting. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not your fault.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Since I doubt anything major's gonna happen in the next week, here are my favorite matches of 2017.



Well, that Dunne/Bate rematch from this past week's NXT came pretty close.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HelloDes wrote:

Wrestling Observer Worst Match of the Year, as voted by the readership

1987: Hulk Hogan vs. André the Giant (WWF, WrestleMania 3)


No.

This took place in 1987.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXRR4DSsluE

Maybe he got his Giants confused.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KaneRobot wrote:
HelloDes wrote:

Wrestling Observer Worst Match of the Year, as voted by the readership

1987: Hulk Hogan vs. André the Giant (WWF, WrestleMania 3)


No.

This took place in 1987.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXRR4DSsluE

Maybe he got his Giants confused.


KaneRobot is right.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of giants, it's kinda shocking to me that one of the Undertaker/Giant Gonzalez PPV matches didn't win Worst Match of the Year for 1993.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnny Gargano vs. Andrade Cien Almas from NXT Takeover got a rave review from The Big Dave. Five stars.

Totally onboard with that. I think I enjoyed it even more than Omega/Jericho or anything from Wrestle Kingdom or the last batch of New Japan shows.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, Dave, you cad.

Quote:
Ric Flair turns 69 today. God is there the easiest joke in the world begging to be written.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like to imagine a naked Ric Flair staggering, before suddenly toppling over face-first, hard, onto some woman's vagina.

Because the NAYTCH-ure Boy is a, WOO!, kiss-stealin', wheelin'-dealin', high-fivin', muff-divin', labia-lickin', mouth-dickin', spit-shining, 69-ing, Roto-Rootin', Kama-Sutrin' SON of a gun!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Observer awards were finally revealed. No real big surprises. NJPW dominated the voting. WWE came in 3rd for Promotion of the Year, behind ROH (helped no doubt by their NJPW association and interpromotional cards).

NXT came in 2nd for Best Weekly TV Show, but after that, no WWE show came in the top 5. RAW came in 9th and was voted Worst Show.

The top 5 MOTY vote-getters had Omega, Okada or both.

WWE had zero vote-getters in the top 5 for Feud of the Year. (I'd take Velveteen Dream/Black or Jericho/Owens over any UFC "feud", though.)

Rusev has replaced Cesaro as Most Underrated WWE Guy.

Unless you count NXT Takeovers, WWE had zero shows in the Best Major Wrestling Show Top 5. 7 of the top 10 Worst Major Wrestling Shows went to WWE.

WWE had 4 of the top 5 Worst Match(es) of the Year.

The top 4 Most Disgusting Promotional Tactics went to WWE.

The top 5 Worst Feuds of the Year all went to WWE. Randy Orton, Jinder Mahal and Bray Wyatt dominated with their garbage feuds with each other.

Top 5 Worst Gimmicks: all WWE.

After all of that, Worst Promotion still went to TNA. If WWE is so bad at everything and did everything the worst, this feels like an unfair kneejerk vote at this point. WWE only placed 3rd for Worst Promotion.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It hasn't been a stellar year for WWE, but the Observer awards have been a haven for WWE hate-voting for decades. 2017-18 WWE has been more dull and uninvolving than it is horrendous or unendurable.

And the Feud of the Year is undoubtedly Roman Reigns' Thrice-Warmed Booking Push vs. Roman Reigns' Actual Level of Popularity.

SPOILER ALERT: We all know who wins. We've always known.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I felt like the Observer fanbase became generally a bit more positive towards WWE in the post-ECW/WCW years BE THE FAULT (and before New Japan and the indies had their recent renaissance in the last few years). But even just looking at past winners, I'm not sure that feeling really shakes out in the fact department.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark another 5-star victory for Kenny Omega, as Dave "I'll Stop the World and Meltz With You" Meltzer has given the Young Bucks/Golden Lovers match from Long Beach the golden 5 star treatment.

Some angry fans on Twitter are once again wondering why Shawn Michaels and Undertaker repeatedly doing their finishers and making shocked faces to the camera didn't achieve this.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My bold prediction for next year's Observer awards is that Conor McGregor won't repeat as Best Box Office Draw and Best Interview next year.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Dave gave the 6-man ladder match and Gargano/Ciampa at TakeOver: New Orleans the full five stars. This marks the first time he's ever given a WWE show 2 5-star matches. This means Johnny Gargano has as many 5-star matches as Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels in the Meltzer Database. I thought both matches were tremendous but wouldn't have gone the full 5 stars on either. I don't think either was nearly as good as the Gargano/Almas match from the last TakeOver.

Dave was also a little too generous to the Rousey match, giving it 4.25 stars. Too many slow-motion old man sequences with Kurt and Triple H for me. As much as I'm not much of a fan of any of the 3 guys, I thought the IC triple threat was the best match of the night.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMEGA. OKADA. 2 OUT OF 3 FALLS. NO TIME LIMITS. DO THE THING. IF YA GOT THE GUTS.

Get those stars ready, Daveyboy.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

**************¼
(six apiece, and 2¼ for Red Shoes)
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KaneRobot



Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 2085
Location: Bitters, Michigan

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How to make a 3 star match a 10 star match:

https://streamable.com/f0myo
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HelloDes



Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 2448
Location: Bitters, Iceland

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still an old favorite, and the best junior prom EVER:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVX6lXptoLw
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Foleyite



Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 3550
Location: Bitters, California

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Dave gave the recent Okada/Tanahashi match 5.5 stars. This marks the 4th time he's given an Okada/Tanahashi match 5 stars or more.

Hit the bricks, Flair/Steamboat.
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Foleyite



Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 3550
Location: Bitters, California

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In all the hubbub about Okada/Omega IV getting 7 stars, I thought about "breaking the star rating" the opposite way.

He once gave a Heroes of Wrestling match between The Bushwhackers and The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff -459.4 stars. "This is the worst match I've ever rated in my life" he wrote. This was back in 1999, but I doubt anyone would complain now if he did this with a truly terrible match. I also feel like I remember him doing something like this a few other times with especially awful matches, although I'm not really finding anything else at the moment.
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HelloDes



Joined: 02 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big deal, Snitsky compiled 7 and a half stars in just the years 2005 and 2006.
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Foleyite



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Dave rated the Men's Money in the Bank match 4.25 stars. Way too high to me. I thought the womens match was better. It was a card full of solid 3-3.75 matches to me (with a Lashley squash and garbage Reigns/Mahal ** match wedged in there). I honestly think I enjoyed the Rousey match more than either of the MITB matches.
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